tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN February 5, 2011 2:00am-3:00am EST
good evening. we are live from cairo yet again tonight. and what a remarkable day we have seen, a day very different than some of the worst fears and predictions of what was going to happen, and a day very different than the last two days that we the ground has changed, as you can tell from the quality of this broadcast. we're standing outside and have actual lights. that's a sign that the security situation in the area we're in has drastically improved. otherwise, we would still be broadcasting from indoors for security reasons. that being said, it was a remarkable day of peaceful protests in liberation square. though in the last few hours there has been counts of sporadic gunfire in the square. we want to check in with a cnn stringer who has been reporting from the square.
ian, what were those shots about, what happened? >> reporter: anderson, about 1:45 in the morning here, we were hearing heavy gunfire coming from the boundary of the square. after that, we were hearing shouts of allah akbar. talking to our sources there near where it was, the pro-mubarak protestors tried to test the lines of the anti-mubarak protestors, and the army, seeing them coming, fired in the air to disburse them. there was several times that these pro-mubarak protestors would try to test that line. every time the army would shoot in the air to try to push them back. anderson? >> so ian, when was the last time that there were reports of gunfire? >> reporter: well, the last time that we heard gunfire was about 2:30 in the morning here in cairo.
i am personally about -- you know, i'm on the southern end of the square, and this happened about -- around the northern end of the square. and the last time that we heard it was about 2:30 in the morning here. >> all right, ian, i appreciate that. stay safe. we'll continue to check in with you. again, a remarkable day. we did see sporadic acts of violence today. the officers of one news network was attacked, according to them were burned by thugs who entered and trashed the offices. but by and large, journalists were able to get to the square and to report on what they saw. our ivan watson was there. and our full team covering these events since they began now on what is day 12, 12 days ago is when this all began.
let's begin with a wrap-up of what we saw and heard today. given the violence of the last 48 hours, it was a remarkable sight. tens of thousands of opposition pro-tell fors crammed into liberation square, shoulder to shoulder, for a demonstration called the day of departure. they came from different walks of life, united with one message, a message for egyptian president hosni mubarak, get out and get out now. [ speaking foreign language ] no mubarak, they chant. tomorrow we'll use our boots to step on you. despite that tough talk, the day was peaceful. the crowds rejoicing in their new found freedom to express their opinions. dancing and singing replaced the scenes of savage beatings we've
seen for days. though some journalists still came under attack elsewhere in the city, the crackdown on the media from thugs subsided. >> these people here will tell you, those were not egyptians. these are the real egyptians who have come out here to protest for democracy. >> it was safe enough for journalists to get into the square, those some threats remain. >> our neighbors have warmed us that suspected secret police are outside trying to get in to shut our potentially shut us down. >> the egyptian military finally stepped up their presence around liberation square, corralling pro-mubarak demonstrators, using their tanks and barbed wire to separate the two groups. it was a welcome sign of order. the country's defense minister made his first appearance in liberation square. whether it was a sign to anti-mubarak protestors or an attempt to rally the morale of
his troops was unclear. the threat of chaos hung not far away. mubarak loyalists attacked opposition protestors on the outskirts of the square. >> we have seen pitched battles taking place between gangs of pro and anti-government demonstrators. that go out with these make shift shields and claim one street after another, block by block. >> since violence erupted, at least 11 killed and more than 900 wounded according to the egyptian health ministry. president obama spoke. >> in order for egypt to have a bright future, which i believe it can have, the only thing that will work is moving a orderly
transition process that begins right now. >> though today's gathering was called the day of departure, president mubarak did not step down by the end of the day. he is still in his office, still holed up in his palace. the protestors still remain in the square. and we're joined now by ivan watson, who is at the square, and also ben wedeman and cnn's hala gorani. ivan, you were watching all of this extraordinary bravery and courage really. to remember what we have witnessed and what egyptians here have witnessed for 48 hours, the brutality, the attacks and yet to come out in such numbers and stand shoulder to shoulder, one with another, and brave the thugs and brave beatings was an extraordinary thing, ivan.
>> really incredible. especially considering that this time last night when we were all talking, we really had the feeling that something terrible was going to happen with attempts to shut down the international and local media, and the deployment of additional troops around here. little did we realize that that was going to give some space for this remarkable and for the most part peaceful gathering in what had been a war zone for two days and two nights. >> ben, why the change? we definitely saw the egyptian military step in and separate the two. >> because there has been some criticism in the egyptian media of the behavior of the army over the previous two days, just standing by and allowing these thugs to go into the square. it may also be an attempt to contain the demonstration, to stop it from going elsewhere, and to keep it contained and possibly to make it less interesting from a media point of view by simply having it day
after day a stationary protest, same thing, all the time. >> but seeing the military actually searching people, actually checking i.d.s and stuff, to me just put into stark contrast and raises the question why didn't the military do that over the last 48 hours when pro-mubarak demonstrators were descending without being checked at all? >> i asked the egyptian foreign minister that, and he says, what should we have done, sent thousands and thousands of troops in there? it would have made the situation much worse. although we see today with the increased presence on the streets, it's much more peaceful. >> that sounds laughable. it's not as if there were thousands of additional troops. it took some barbed wire and determination and they were able to keep peace. >> that's what can be done. obviously there are decisions being made at a much higher level than the foreign minister how to deal with these demonstrations.
the foreign minister is not involved in security matters. >> despite the fact that there was an increased military presence, there were civilian checkpoints, literally every 200 yards. >> ivan, what are you hearing from the anti-mubarak protestors? are they just intending to continue to stay there until he steps down? >> absolutely, absolutely. they're not going anywhere right now and i feel they're emboldened after having survived the two days and two nights of clashes here, and then getting the moral support of the tens of thousands of people who came, who haven't been fighting here to defend this turf but have come in to join in. we had people from the upscale neighborhoods of cairo coming in, intellectuals, serious politicians who have spoken out against the government, the
former foreign minister and arab league head. the defense minister paid a visit here. so i think the numbers have swelled yet again here. and while the military was controlling the northern and western edges of the barricades here, and what has become an opposition enclave, the eastern edges were not controlled. so while a lot of our attention was focused on the remarkable scene, the dancing and laughing here, there were pretty violent clashes taking place in the side streets to the east of the enclave. and the opposition activist, they did manage to capture more territory. they moved several city blocks, if not more, to the east and set up more barricades and it's a sign that, you know, the jeannie is out of the bottle and these clashes are continuing and it's going to be hard to bring this
under control and put a stop to it. >> and ivan, at one time -- i was listening to your reporting today from the square. it sounded like you had concern that there were some state agents or secret police actually searching for cameras. what happened? >> yeah, i'm still not sure exactly what was going on there. we have had men, plain clothes men come to this very location in the past, not showing any identification, searching our bags, searching our equipment. and questioning us in the past and asking for our identities. as i'm learning, that seems to be a bit of a norm in egypt. so when people show up banging and trying to get in, it could be an enthusiastic demonstrator, it could be the secret police
and our neighbors advised us they thought it was the latter and told us to hunker down. and given the activities of the past -- of the past 48 hours that you know better than me, you've been assaulted several times, it pays to be very cautious. we do know -- i spoke with one photographer who was briefly detained by egyptian soldiers right outside the egyptian museum. he said he was taken inside and there some kind of military plain clothes man took his video -- his film cards, confiscated them on site. and that was right inside the egyptian museum. almost a punishment really for the fact that this photographer had been out taken photos and the photographer said that that officer had a number of other photo cards that had been seized from other photographers
throughout the course of the day. >> we'll have more. there's also a video circulating on the internet of what appears to be a u.s. diplomatic vehicle, a white van plowing through a group of protestors. we're going to have what the u.s. government is saying about this video and a lot more, live from cairo in a moment. ♪ i'm not just someone who's quitting with chantix and support... our kids go to school together. -we work together. -i'm in your cooking class. we play ball together. [ male announcer ] chantix is a non-nicotine pill proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. and you can even smoke during the first week. quitting on my own never seemed to be enough. this time it was different. this time i was ready. ready to take control. ready to talk to my doctor. [ male announcer ] some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions
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that square and speak out, without any guaranties of what's going to happen or that the state is going to protect you or the military is going to protect you, it was an extraordinary thing to witness. these images today are different because of the courage that it took to go there after the last 48 hours. i also want to show you a little bit more of what president obama said today. >> we want to see this moment of turmoil turned into a moment of opportunity. the entire world is watching. what we hope for and what we will work for is a future where all of egyptian society seizes that opportunity. right now, a great and ancient civilization is going through a time of tumulti and transformation. as they do, they will continue to have a strong friend and partner in the united states of america.
>> president obama today. you may be hearing calls to prayers behind us. it is just after 5:00 a.m. here, probably around 5:20 or so. day 12 has begun. we won't to follow events live now in liberation square. i'm joined by professor dr. fouad ajami, in washington. also joined by cnn's john king, and ben wedeman. professor ajami, your thoughts on what we witnessed today? >> we witnessed a great standoff. we have ridden this roller coaster of a story. you have the man that is the target of this revolution thinking that he can run out the clock, that he can outwait this people and draw people's attention away from this drama. i think it is a classic standoff. this is where we now stand between mubarak and this movement. i think four men and only four men in egypt know exactly what the script is, and that's
mubarak, his vice president, the chief of staff, and the defense minister. and i think if we look back on what we went through last night, when we all were assembled, and we were doing the story, it looked like a prelude to a crackdown. the crackdown did not materialize and each party has taken the measure of the other. mubarak now can -- realizes that these people are not going away. and then for their part, the demonstrators understand that this is a very stubborn man and the so-called day of departure came and went and he still did not party. so each party has taken the measure of the other and a massive crackdown was being planned, this is my judgment, a massive clackdown was being planned but the army would not do it. >> john king from washington, what have you heard and what are we hearing for the last several hours? >> anderson, we are at what the administration believes is a critical moment of choice.
they are very heartened and encouraged by not only the fact that the army protected the den traitors today, but the field marshal talked to them. yes, he told them to go to home, but they believe that was an important symbol. now here is the question in washington and the question around the world. did the army do that to buy time for mubarak to run out the clock, sap the energy out of the protestors or did the army do that as a signal? the administration is very cautiously but more optimistic tonight that as we head into the next week of this drama, vice president suleman, the field marshal will tell president mubarak he must find a way out. go to -- they're not certain they're at that point, but in their private conversations with the military, they're confident that the military will not be involved in any other crackdown.
this is very hard to crack, because it is so secretive. the most secretive and fascinating conversations months or years from now when we get the details would be secretary defense gates with the field marshal. it's a smaller but noticeable sense of optimism tonight that they are going to resolve this over the next week to ten days. >> the diplomatic cables that are going back and forth must be extraordinary. ben, you live in this region and have reported it for so long. what is your sense as you look at the tea leaves? >> my feeling is john is right. they tried a crackdown. there's still a crackdown going on. even though in the square they're leaving them alone, human rights activists around cairo have been rounded up. i think what they're doing is just trying to wait it out. let the demonstrations continue within the square itself. well aware that next week, work starts again in egypt.
the stock markets open, people expect schools and universities to reopen. people have to get back to work. the protestors are even talking about a shift system whereby people will remain in the square, but those that need to go to work will go to work. so the government is waiting for these people to get tired and leave. >> professor ajami, my sense is, and i don't like to go into analysis, but i think you're more comfortable with it. my sense is that, do you believe the pro-mubarak mobs, protestors, who went and attacked was an effort by the state to essentially try to push out the protestors without having their fingerprints anywhere near it and then they were surprised or maybe it was a test, but that the protestors battled back and held the square and therefore the state had to capitulate. >> you're absolutely on the mark.
in fact, probing has been going on. you can do this with goons and secret service people. you can do this with plain clothes policemen. but for the big crackdown, you have to do it and you need the army to do that kind of crackdown. but there's no doubt, they're testing the courage of these protestors. because fundamentally, i believe, and i believed throughout the story that hosni mubarak has never took these people seriously. he thought he could intimidate them and frighten them. and i think in many ways mubarak has in him something of ahmadinejad. egypt is not iran. the circumstances are different, and egypt is under the gaze of the world, and to a considerabl extent, under the gaze of the united states. i think there is an enormous amount of american influence.
not so much public diplomacy, but behind the scenes. >> the state here, ben, denies that attacks on journalists have been coordinated by the state. and yet today, they seem to suddenly mysteriously across the board, in various parts of town, ease up somewhat, though some offices have been ransacked and human rights workers have been targeted. is that just a coincidence? >> no, i don't think it is. i think they got so much bad press, because the world watched on live television. for 15 hours this onslaught occurred and the army stood buy. i think it's obvious. this is in some way directed by people within the government and the national democratic party, the ruling party. can you find a direct link? probably not.
but it's there, no question. it doesn't rain one day and parch the next. >> i keep thinking what dr. ajami said that mubarak is using the playbook of saddam hussein and i keep think thing is a playbook and they are kind of, okay, we'll try not using the military but we'll try sending thugs to beat them up. and that doesn't work, they switch to something else. >> it's a playbook not unique to this place or saddam hussein's iraq. they stud it throughout the region. >> more with dr. ajami and john king. and a white van, diplomatic van, u.s. government. we'll explain the video and what is being said and it. [ male announcer ] myron needed an mba to turn his technology into a business. so he chose a university where the faculty average
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you have these roadblocks that are set up by ordinary citizens. some of these neighborhood patrols, patrolling areas in and out of key positions in the city. cairo looks nothing like it did a month ago,ky tell you that. getting from one place to another is really quite an experience. >> every few hours cairo seems to change in these last several days.
a video has surfaced on youtube causing a lot of consternation in diplomatic circles, so we're trying to separate the facts from the fiction and the rumors. i want to warn you, the video is disturbing. this is different from two of the other vehicles you've seen. this is a video, which was reportedly according to the posting on youtube taken january 28th, last friday, a day of pandemonium, a day of violence in this city, where the police were still involved, there was widespread basically pandemonium in many parts of the city. take a look at the video and then i'll tell you what you may be looking at. >> now, that appears to be a
white diplomatic vehicle, the kind used by the u.s. government here to move diplomats around. what the u.s. government is now saying about this video, as we watch it again and again, it is disturbing, i know that. is that on that day, on january 28th, they had a number of their vehicles, of their diplomatic vehicles stolen and that they had been receiving reports that they were used in criminal activities involved in incidents like the one that appears in this video. we obviously cannot independently confirm or verify that, but i was talking to ben wedeman about it, and that is on the day there was widespread violence. ben wedeman is reporting that the embassy was on lockdown early that day. so the idea there would have been u.s. diplomats driving around in diplomatic vehicles doesn't seem to make any sense. so it seems to jive with what the u.s. government and state department is saying about these vehicles having been stolen.
that's really all the information that we have on the video. it is certainly adding -- just one more of the videos. and now that the internet is back up in this country, you can imagine everybody here has been recording this revolution on cell phone cameras and we're probably going to be seeing more and more disturbing videos over the next several days and/or weeks. i'm joined by jill dorty. how concerned is the u.s. about this? >> they're worried it can spark anti-american sentiment. it's on youtube and other sites. and the one thing they say is our personnel, the u.s. personnel from the embassy were definitely not involved. you know, look at the way it was shot, too. it's difficult to tell exactly, because it's coming from above, an aerial shot. you can't look in there and see who is in that vehicle. so it's pretty tough.
they say definitely no embassy personnel in that. >> right. it's also not a situation where there were necessarily pro-mubarak demonstrators. now there are places where you drive through where you get attacked by pro-mubarak demonstrators and some vehicles would naturally want to keep driving through as fast as they can to avoid being attacked. that's not the situation that is represented in that video. it looks like a vehicle careening out of control or intentionally steering toward some pedestrians and then moving on. jill, let's talk about evacuations. i understand the u.s. government -- they stopped the u.s. government charters out of the airport, is that correct? >> they did, because there's really not much demand. so they stopped it for today, friday. they could start it up again if there were demand. so they're honoring as we go along. commercial flights are going out with empty seats, in fact. >> there's numerous commercial flights now.
some get canceled, but a number of flights are taking off to the united states and to points throughout europe. how many people have they evacuated in total so far, jill. >> last we looked, it was 2,300 out of 3,000 who asked for help. but it's not clear whether some of those let's say the remaining 700 or so got out on other then, it's not that clear. but 2,300 so far. >> jill dougherty, thank you very much. for many folks here, even getting to the airport is a concern, just trying to figure out how to avoid checkpoints that might be manned by hostile forces. let's get a quick check with joe johns. joe?
>> astronaut mark kelly, husband of congresswoman gabrielle giffords, said today he will command nasa's shuttle flight in april. he said his wife's extraordinary recovery was a key factor in the decision. the economy added just 36,000 jobs in january, short of expectations. meantime, the unemployment rate unexpectedly fell to 9%. heading into super bowl sunday weekend. sheets of ice and snow sliding off cowboys stadium caused minor injuries to several people. a deep freeze across texas is causing major travel headaches for fans. hundreds of flights were canceled in dallas, but the forecast called for a high of 44 degrees on game day. the game will be played indoors but some fans are having a tough time just getting to dallas due to the weather. anderson? >> joe, thank you very much.
[ speaking foreign language ] at first, there was a day of rage. then the 1 million egyptian march. and today is the day of departure or farewell, where egyptians say farewell to their president of 30 years, president hosni mubarak. >> ben wedeman reporting earlier today. our friend and former colleague christiane amanpour is also here reporting in cairo for abc news, doing the remarkable work that she always does. she's had interviews with president hosni mubarak, as well as the vice president. i talked to her a short time ago. you spent about 30 minutes with president mubarak. you also interviewed the vice president. what did you make of them both?
>> well, look, i had never met vice president suleman. he's well known to the west and to israel. he's never given an interview, particularly to a foreign journalist. he wanted to speak arabic. i persuaded him to speak english. he's obviously very competent person and has the trust of all these other officials around the world who he has dealt with. i think they're putting their faith in him being a transitional figure getting through this moment. >> you talked to anti-mubara protestors and they say he's been the right hand of mubarak, is that the man to transition? >> a lot of people don't like it whatsoever. but he's not personally tainted with corruption, according to all the stories about him. and from what i've been told, and this is really critical.
the constitution here, the one that doesn't allow any political parties and only one candidate, can only be amended i've been told as long as the president remains in office. if he leaves, then the speaker of the house becomes president and has to have elections in 60 days under the current constitution. so they have to have mubarak unless they amend the constitution. >> how was president mubarak? >> look, it was extraordinary. i've been to the palace before, i've interviewed him before. when i went to the palace to interview the vice president, i basically said, is the president here? i was really very, very pleased, because it was a real sort of human moment and with no cameras, as you know, you get a different sense from people, you get a different relationship with people. they talk to you in a different way. they don't have their game face on. and i felt like i sort of got to the heart of the embattled protagonist in this unfolding drama. >> do you think he will be willing to give up in the coming days? >> i don't think he'll do that willingly.
i'm not saying he won't be pushed out, but i don't think he wants to do it willingly, because i do believe he's a patriot, a military man who does not see deserting as someone honorable. he does not want to be president ben ali of tunisia who was run out to saudi arabia. >> he said he wants to die on egyptian soil. >> and he doesn't want to be humiliated and have egypt humiliated. this is the corner phone of the arab world. >> we heard from mohammed elbaradei in the last 24 hours saying we're not looking to humiliate members of the former regime, perhaps that is an important message. >> perhaps there's a struggle to do it in the most dignified fashion. clearly the west, even president obama while saying we want this transition to be rapid, look, they are really afraid of what will come next if there's a vacuum.
so what they're insisting on right now, the united states, is a immediate forming some kind of a road map to go forward. that's what they really want suleman to do right now. >> bottom line, today we saw the egyptian military step in a way we haven't seen in the last 48 hours. you can look at it in the reverse and testament to the fact that they could have stepped in 48 hours ago and prevented -- i mean, with some concertina wire and a few more troops prevented this bloodshed. the fact that they didn't, how do you read that? >> i've been asking about that and people have said look, this is a military who has been forced to take on a police role. in any country, that is a tough thing for a military to do. in order not to have blood on their hands, i've been told they were trying to be neutral observers and trying to do their best to maintain law and order. and in the square as you've seen, their chants of the army
and the people are one. it was clear, as you point out, that the bloodshed has worsed to switch from neutral gear to forcing them apart and creating a bigger buffer zone. >> they searched anti-mubarak supporters, they didn't search pro-mubarak supporters when they arrived with weapons and allowed them to get right up there. i find that troubling, that they didn't bother to search the pro-mubarak side and i see that as significant. >> it is. i didn't see that, but it is significant, and this is something that even officials -- egyptian officials, the mayhem over the last 48 hours is something that is reflected very badly on egypt and they know that. >> nobody like you to have in the field. >> good to be back. >> when we come back, we'll get back to anderson cooper in cairo.
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gaue grmatains heyesy.rc g friday prayers, as we saw them today, in cairo. i'm back with the panel for some thoughts on what happens next. let's start with dr. ajami. the weekend, what are you going to be looking for over the next several days? >> i'm going to watch you and see what you do. and then i will analyze what you tell us and what you bring. i think we still are in this kind of -- we've entered this uncertainty and as we depicted it, they've taken measure of one another. the ruler has taken measure of
his population. they're not going away, they're not scurrying home. this is very amazing for him, for this ruler. this is the quintessential pharaohic culture where the pharaoh is always obeyed. >> john king, diplomatically, what are you going to be watching for? >> i'm going to be watching to see if the army continues to defend the protestors. the administration believes that -- they have a growing belief that president mubarak is more isolated, that the army has made the decision it will not allow the violence to continue. the question is, can there be a soft landing? he is a proud man, he is a stubborn man. the question is, can they, over
the next several days to a week or so, nudge him into at least quasi retirement. when they say mubarak must go, the mubarak people say he can't go or we can't change the constitution. they think they're making some progress, anderson, but they really -- they won't put that in concrete. >> ivan watson, as a reporter on the ground, what are you going to be looking for, what questions do you need answered over the next few days? >> reporter: i think the opposition party said they will go into negotiations with the vice president starting tomorrow. i think it will be interesting to watch how the youth here may respond to some of this, the muslim brotherhood says they won't talk.
the youth here are walking around here with their bandages like a show of courage, a source of pride really. can may at any time in the future, negotiate with the government? and what are the people from the national democratic party, those who are trying to defend the ancient regime, how are they going to respond? could they throw a wrench in the works in certain to be a turbulent days and weeks ahead. >> ben? >> i think we have to look at this movement, the demonstration, is it going to phase out? things have to get back to normal. as ivan mentioned, some of the opposition leaders are ready to open a dialogue with the government. so you wished the possibility that this movement is going to start to lose steam against a regime that will not lose steam.
they are determined to stay in power one way or the other. >> hala? >> what struck me talking to both the demonstrators and government officials and pro-mubarak demonstrators and they all say one thing and that is they want the solution to be an egyptian one. they don't want it to be dictated from the outside. i would be interested in knowing will pressure from the outside change the government and the leaders up here or will it refashion from the inside? because in is a reawakening of the political, i'll be looking out for the regional ripple effects. >> we're going to show you a reporter's notebook now, if we have time on the back, dr. ajami, i would like to ask one more question. let's take a look at this. we've had a still photographer traveling with us under some trying circumstances. he took some of the images you're going to see. some were taken by others. this is a behind the scenes look at what we've seen. 11 days and counting. hard to believe so much has changed in so sort a time.
in tahrir square, the anti-mubarak protestors will tell you fear has been defeated. there's no turning back. when morning comes, you see the makeshift metal barricades, the hand forged weapons, dug up rocks, bandaged bodies, they are still standing their ground. fear has been defeated, they'll tell you. no turning back. they bought the square with blood, paid for it with pain, bruised but not broken. battered, they've not bowed. fear has been defeated, they'll tell you. there's no turning back. raised to keep silent, not criticize the state, beaten by cops, gassed and abused, turned on, attacked by fire throwing thugs. they stayed in the square and today more kept on coming. peacefully protesting, their lives on the line. fear has been defeated. there's no turning back. some are islamists, no doubt about that. but this goes beyond one
religion or party. that's not why they're here. they speak about freedom and fairness and justice. they speak about the things all of us say that we want. you never really heard that in egypt in the past. at least not openly called for in the streets. fear has been defeated. there's no turning back. all the reporters and camera people have been working around the clock trying to cover these fast-moving events. on the ground, it's easy to move around, talk to people. there's another story in pro-mubarak crowds. many of us have been attacked, it happens quickly, spirals out of control. all you can do is stay calm, try to escape. it's not a coincidence, it's a plan, clear as day. the people in power want to control what you see. we try to position ourselves in different spots. we find balconies that give a view of the battle. but if we can see them, they can see us. and sometimes you have to close the curtains. fear has been defeated.
there's no turning back. we've heard the roar of the cry, the cries of the wounded. for me, the most haunting sound echoes in the night. sticks and stones banging on barricades as these anti-mubarak demonstrators wait for an attack that inevitably comes. it's a warning to those who have tried to defeat them. we are here, they're saying. we are strong. we are not giving up. fear has been defeated. there's no turning back. you speak so lyrical. as we end this program, what have we seen today? do you think fear has been defeated here? do you think there is no turning back? >> there was enough -- this has been the most humiliated of nations, egypt. outsiders came and trampled upon it, and then its own sons
rebelled and eventually trampled upon their fellow citizens. a military regime took power in 1952, six decades ago, that promised equality, justice, it promised a new dawn for the egyptians. and now all of a sudden, some six decades later, egyptians look at their life, all the pride of egypt in many ways is the poverty in egypt. something like 20% of its population lives beneath the poverty line. the pride of egypt is one thing, and the accomplishments of egypt, the paltry accomplishments under this authoritarian regime. so the egyptians rose and dare dream of something different and something better. and the future that is in offer to the egyptians is very simple. either a secular democracy, a theocracy or a military dictatorship. i think what they are telling us, what they have displayed in these 11, 12 days to us is their desire to be rid of this
inheritance of the past. the inheritance of fear and the inheritance of submission. they have surprised themselves and they have surprised the world. >> dr. ajami, i appreciate you joining us tonight as you have all week, john king, as well. ivan watson, stay safe. hala gorani, thank you very much. our coverage continues. good evening. our points from chase sapphire preferred are worth 25% more on travel. we're like forget florida, we're going on a safari. so we're on the serengeti, and seth finds a really big bone. we're talking huge. they dig it up, put it in the natural history museum and we get to name it. sethasauraus. really. your points from chase sapphire preferred are worth 25% more on travel? means better vacations. that's incredible. believe it...with chase sapphire preferred
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